Hansard April 7, 2005 Question Period -- Relentless Questions & Empty Answers

Paul Martin and Stephen Harper attended the Pope's funeral today.

CPAC.ca CPAC is still carrying Gomery Inquiry today.


Note: I have omitted much but this is still lengthy; nevertheless, I wanted you to notice who questioned, the relentlessness and the calibre of the questions on the scandal, the emptiness and repetitiveness of the responses . . . . many words but little substance. Check what Mr. Brison and Ms. McLellan actually say . . . over and over. Lines and emphasis are mine. NJC

Hansard April 7, 2005 Question Period

The third link is the one you want but it may not work. Instead, follow these steps. Just copy and paste if necessary.

Step 1

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/chamber.asp?Language=E

Step 2

http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/078_2005-04-07/ques078-E.htm

Hansard April 7, 2005 (1420) to (1505)

http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/078_2005-04-07/ques078-E.htm

Scroll down for (1420) to (1505).

Sponsorship Program

Mr. Peter MacKay (Central Nova, CPC): Mr. Speaker, now that the publication ban at the Gomery commission has been partially lifted and the stench and the rot of corruption is starting to leak out, I would like to ask the Prime Minister if he is prepared to disclose whether there are senior members of the staff of ministerial offices who have been released or taken a leave of absence as a result of being implicated in the sponsorship scandal, and will he list those names?

Hon. Anne McLellan (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first, the Gomery commission was established by the Prime Minister so we could get to the bottom of what happened.

[. . . . ] We want as much testimony as possible on the public record, [. . . . ]

Mr. Peter MacKay (Central Nova, CPC): Mr. Speaker, there is a mountain of evidence that the Liberal government is involved in a criminal conspiracy of the like never seen in this country before.

[. . . . ] The Speaker: [. . . . ] Suggesting that there is some kind of conspiracy going on among any members of the House that is of a criminal nature he knows would be out of order and improper.[. . . . ]

Mr. Peter MacKay: Mr. Speaker, Groupe Everest employees have pointed out that the Prime Minister himself was setting up meetings to end Groupaction's monopoly and divvy up lucrative sponsorship contracts.

The Prime Minister has acted in this way before on behalf of Groupaction. He intervened in 1994 in the national unity fund contract. His office actively campaigned to have Groupe Everest added to the list of advertising agencies.

How can the Prime Minister continue to deny knowledge--

(1420)

[. . . . ] Hon. Anne McLellan . . . . absolutely untrue. . . . unsubstantiated allegations, . . . .

[. . . . ] Mr. Peter MacKay (Central Nova, CPC): Mr. Speaker, that feigned outrage is not cutting it anymore. There is evidence the Prime Minister was involved in spreading the dirty money around.

[Translation]

There are documents from the Quebec chief electoral officer to prove that the Parti Québécois got thousands of dollars from at least seven Groupaction employees, who were apparently reimbursed afterward by their employer.

Can the Prime Minister assure us that none of the money paid out by the sponsorship program went to bankroll the separatists' agenda?

Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): . . . . They are engaging in petty politics.

There is one politician who wants to get to the bottom of all this, our Prime Minister. He appointed Justice Gomery and fully supports what he is doing.

[English]

Mr. Stockwell Day (Okanagan—Coquihalla, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is very clear now, and we have information, that over the last two years at least seven employees of Groupaction generously donated to the Parti Québécois and some of the money indeed may well have been used and funnelled through the sponsorship fund.

The Prime Minister can tone down the temperature of all of this if we could simply get this assurance, that not one cent of taxpayer money was used to fund the Parti Québecois in its fight to break up our country. Could we just get that assurance?

Hon. Scott Brison . . . . unproven allegations. . . . We will not have the facts until Justice Gomery provides us with his report.

[. . . . ] Prime Minister is committed to getting to the bottom of this issue.

Mr. Stockwell Day (Okanagan—Coquihalla, CPC): Again, no specific response, Mr. Speaker.

[Translation]

Once he was backed into a corner, the Prime Minister promised that the Liberal Party would pay the dirty sponsorship money back to the Canadian taxpayers.

Will the Prime Minister also make a commitment to pay back the sponsorship money that went to finance the Quebec separatists?

Hon. Scott Brison . . . . have made it clear: we want to get to the bottom of this. If . . . .

It is, however, impossible to do anything without all the facts. We must wait for Justice Gomery's report.

Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Speaker, according to the testimony of Jean Brault, between 1995 and 2002, the owner of Groupaction and his businesses paid $2.2 million in tainted money to the Liberal Party, which forms the government.

In light of such serious revelations about the Groupaction connection, I ask the Prime Minister if he intends to return the $2.2 million to its rightful owner.

[. . . . ]

(1425)

Hon. Scott Brison. . . . not appropriate to consider these allegations facts; the truth is what we need. We must wait for Justice Gomery's report.

Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Speaker, let us talk about the real issues. It has been revealed that, in order to get that $2.2 million, the Liberal Party of Canada made use of political contributions, cash, phony invoices, falsified professional fees, the payment of Liberal Party bills, and the hiring of people who never worked for Groupaction but did work for the Liberal Party.

Is the government going to reimburse the $2 million in tainted money?

Hon. Scott Brison. . . . only allegations. . . .

[. . . . ] Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): [. . . . ] if the Bloc wants to take allegations as fact, [. . . . ]wait for Justice Gomery's report. [. . . . ]

Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I would like the minister to know that the Bloc is going to clean house in Ottawa.

The system set up by Brault and Corriveau involved the highest circles in the Liberal Party. The PMO awarded contracts and they were funded by the unity reserve. It approved budgets and, the organizers set up a fund-raising system. Reimburse the dirty money. That is what people want.

[. . . . ]

(1430)

[English]

Hon. Anne McLellan (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it was the Prime Minister who established the Gomery Commission. It was the Prime Minister who said that we would get to the bottom of this. It is our party that today had our counsel before the Gomery Commission arguing for a lifting of the publication ban. We want the testimony in the public domain. We want to receive Mr. Justice Gomery's report. We want to get to the bottom of this.

[. . . . ] Hon. Jack Layton (Toronto—Danforth, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's pathetic plans and performance should concern all honest federalists in the country. What Canadians are about to see unfold before them through the media is an example of the Liberals treating the public purse as their private piggy bank. It is about to leave the impression that federalism is corrupt.

[. . . . ] Mr. Vic Toews (Provencher, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the evidence is now public. We know that misappropriated sponsorship money funded the Liberal campaigns in 1997 and 2000. Jean Brault said he knew that sponsorship money his company received was to go to the Liberal Party.

Will the Liberal Party and the government commit today that every dollar taken will be returned forthwith?

Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): [. . . . ] If witnesses' testimony, according to the Conservative Party deputy leader and leader, is lies and shams, then why should we not wait until Justice Gomery completes his work so that we can really rely on the facts, the analysis and all the testimony?

[. . . . ] Mr. Vic Toews (Provencher, CPC): Mr. Speaker, Jean Brault flowed sponsorship money through his corporation which landed up in the pockets of the Liberal Party. Jean Brault donated over $1 million to the Liberal Party, all donated under the table. Will this government commit itself to returning every cent today?

Hon. Scott Brison . . . . the fact is that the party has been very clear and the government has been very clear. If partisan funds were received inappropriately, they will be returned to the Canadian taxpayer, but that cannot be done until we have all the facts. What the hon. member is referring to are allegations. They are not facts.

[. . . . ]

(1435)

Ms. Helena Guergis (Simcoe—Grey, CPC): Mr. Speaker, a Liberal supporter admitted publicly that his company, Groupaction, gave thousands of dollars of sponsorship money, tax dollars, to separatists in Quebec. The Prime Minister yesterday agreed that both the Liberals and the separatists received tax dollars.

Canadians want to know which party will this government proceed against first to recover the tax dollars, the Liberals or the separatists?

Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): . . . . If [. . . . ]

Ms. Helena Guergis (Simcoe—Grey, CPC): Mr. Speaker, yesterday we had a disgraceful display of government members applauding reports that Canadian tax dollars went to separatists. It is like giving ammunition to the enemy. So is it not true that the biggest allies to Quebec separatists are the federal Liberals and their twisted sponsorship program?

Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): . . . . we are not afraid of the truth. . . .

[. . . . ]

(1440)

[. . . . ] Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, CPC): Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that we are trying to determine is the degree to which contracts were tied to donations back to the Liberal Party. A report that has been moved today says that Benoît Corbeil, the executive director of the party's Quebec wing, once asked for a $400,000 donation and promised that he would get him a $3 million sponsorship contract; this is Jean Brault. The commission Mr. Brault would earn on that contract was to compensate for the donation.

Is the executive director of the Quebec wing of the Liberal Party, Mr. Corbeil, one of these rogue groups of parallel Liberals?

The Speaker: [. . . . ] It does not appear to deal with the recovery of government funding. The hon. member may have a supplementary that is in order, but I do not believe this one is.

Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, CPC): Mr. Speaker, this is not just about dirty money going to the Liberal Party or to the Parti Québécois and it is not just about enriching Liberal friends.
When will the government admit that the party that claimed it wanted to address the democratic deficit was using stolen money to undermine democracy in two successive elections?

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[. . . . ] Government Appointments [Patronage appointments, it seems. NJC]

Mr. Bob Mills (Red Deer, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said he would not tolerate patronage, promotions and appointments based on who one knows in the PMO. He said to let committees review appointments. The environment committee found Mr. Murray unqualified for that patronage job. Parliament yesterday voted 143 to 108 to remove him.

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[. . . . ] Sponsorship Program

Hon. Bill Blaikie (Elmwood—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, all this House and all the Canadian people ask of this Liberal government is one ounce of humility, one ounce of collective responsibility, one ounce of realizing that what is at stake here is not just the Liberal Party but the face of federalism in Quebec and across the country.

For the sake of Canada, for the sake of federalism and for the sake of integrity in Canadian politics, will someone get up and accept the collective responsibility for what has gone on and promise to repay the money, put it aside and put it somewhere where we can get access to it when we know what finally happened?

Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): [. . . . ] our Prime Minister, who appointed Justice Gomery and who continues to support Justice Gomery.

[. . . . ] we want the truth.[. . . . ] The Prime Minister stands with Canadians and with Justice Gomery because we look forward to his report.

Hon. Bill Blaikie (Elmwood—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I was hoping to get something from the Deputy Prime Minister instead of the clown prince of spin over there. What we want from the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Liberals is one simple act of contrition.

This is the same government that hired an army of lawyers to hold the churches responsible collectively for everything that was done in their name. Yet, as far as they are concerned, it is only individual Liberals who can commit a wrong.

It is not the Bloc that is tarnishing federalism in Canada. It is the Liberal Party. It is about time it took credit for it.

(1450)

Hon. Anne McLellan (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as has been said in this House many times before, it was this Prime Minister and this government that created the Gomery commission.

[. . . . ]

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* * *

Air-India

Mr. Russ Hiebert (South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, CPC): Mr. Speaker, on Monday the Deputy Prime Minister rejected our call for a public inquiry into the Air-India fiasco.

This smokescreen of an advisor is just more stalling. Why can she not make up her own mind? Has she caught a bad case of the dithers from the Prime Minister?

Air-India was the largest terrorist attack in Canadian history. Yet, no one has been brought to justice. Nothing less than a full public inquiry is acceptable. Why is the minister dithering on this critical issue?

Hon. Anne McLellan (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, on serious matters such as this, I would appreciate it if members of the opposition who ask questions would actually get their facts straight. In fact, Mr. Reyat has been convicted in relation to the Air-India events.

[. . . . ] absolutely clear. I have offered to meet with the families. [. . . . ]

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* * *

Sponsorship Program

Mr. Brian Pallister (Portage—Lisgar, CPC): Mr. Speaker, during his six days of testimony before the Gomery commission, Jean Brault portrayed his firm, Groupaction, as a virtual financial arm of the Liberal Party's Quebec branch. He spoke about hushed up payments being made to the Liberals in unmarked envelopes, bags of money changing hands.

Let us understand the context. The Prime Minister was the number two man in the country at that time for the Liberal Party. He was the senior minister for Quebec.
Does anyone actually believe he knew nothing about this? Does the government plan to continue to defend the Prime Minister on the basis of his incompetence?

[. . . . ] Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let us be clear, . . . .

[. . . . ] We will continue to stand up for the taxpayer [. . . . ]

(1455)

Mr. Brian Pallister (Portage—Lisgar, CPC): Mr. Speaker, when the Liberals try to wrap themselves in the flag, they soil it with their presence inside it. This is outrageous. The Liberals have put this country at risk with their ridiculous crazy schemes.

Will the government commit to recovering every single cent of the money, plus interest, to the wall on this issue?

Hon. Scott Brison . . . . government launched action, [. . . . ]

[Translation]

Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Speaker, in order to pay at least $2.2 million of dirty money to the Liberal Party, Jean Brault says that no stone was left unturned, from political contributions, to cash, fake invoices, phony professional fees, bill payments on behalf of the Liberal Party and the hiring of individuals who never actually worked for Groupaction.

Now that we know what methods were used and how much money was involved in the Groupaction case alone, will the Prime Minister at least order the Liberal Party to contribute $2.2 million to the dirty money trust fund?

[English]

Hon. Scott Brison. . . . allegations, the same types of allegations that say that the Parti Québécois in Quebec similarly received funds inappropriately.

[. . . . ] Until we have the report, we can only deal with allegations. I would think now that there are fingers being pointed at the Parti Québécois that the hon. member would understand that principle.

[Translation]

Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Speaker, let me say to the minister what his mother probably often said to him when he was not being sensible, “Nonsense”.

In 1998, at the request of a Liberal Party official, Groupaction paid a $24,000 invoice for the production of a video by a close relation of Gagliano for the Liberal Party of Canada.

When will the government ask the Liberal Party to pay back the dirty money obtained by the Liberals through the sponsorships?

[. . . . ] Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, CPC): Mr. Speaker, Jean Brault, the former head of Groupaction Marketing, has testified that the scheme to funnel taxpayers' dollars to the Liberal Party in the 1997 and 2000 federal election campaigns continued until as recently as 2002. He said, “If it wasn't for our contributions to the party, we never would have had such a big piece of the sponsorship pie”.

Will the government now finally admit that this was just a systematic scheme to take taxpayers' money from them and get it back to the Liberal Party?

Hon. Scott Brison (Minister of Public Works and Government Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, once again, these are allegations. They are not facts.[. . . . ]

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[. . . . ] Fisheries

Mr. Randy Kamp (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, CPC): Mr. Speaker, there is more bad news for British Columbia's Fraser River. Last season more than a million sockeye salmon went missing and on Monday it was named B.C.'s most endangered river. The fisheries committee's unanimous report and the Williams report that was just released all conclude that inadequate enforcements and DFO mismanagement are serious problems.

With the fishing season just weeks away, can the minister assure this House that he will accept the recommendations and properly enforce the Fisheries Act and regulations?

(1500)

Hon. Geoff Regan (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Lib.): . . . . I launched the post-season review.. . . . I am looking forward to looking at both reports. . . . . as we move toward reform of the salmon fishery.

[. . . . ] National Defence

Mr. Gordon O'Connor (Carleton—Mississippi Mills, CPC): Mr. Speaker, there must be a byelection coming in Labrador because the Minister of National Defence is finally showing some interest in Goose Bay.

In press releases the minister says he is actively promoting flying training with NATO countries. I must ask, where was his government when the Dutch pulled out, and where is it now that the British have pulled out? The answer is nowhere.

Will the minister explain why training and employment under Liberal management continues to decline at Goose Bay?

Hon. Bill Graham (Minister of National Defence, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, . . . . I have intervened with every foreign defence minister in respect of this file. Personally, we have taken this to their air forces.