Hansard Apr. 12, 05: RCMP, Meyerthorpe, Roszko, Underfunding, Politicization, Security, Gun Registry, Lenient Courts, Criminals' Not Victims' Rights &

The title space was too small to hold all the items covered in this.

Hansard Apr. 12, 05: RCMP, Meyerthorpe, Roszko, Underfunding, Undermanning, Security, Gun Registry, Lenient Courts, Concern for Criminals Not Victims' Rights, Appointed Justices, Sentencing, Drugs, Technology, Sex Offenders, Politicization of the Police Force, AB Forensic Laboratory, Backlog & More

Note: The RCMP is still short 2500 officers, despite the hollow rhetoric and tossing numbers around.

Anne McLellen: We have seen recently in Alberta the Solicitor General indicating that he would like to see an increase in the force of 123 members. That request comes from the province and then we work on that request together.

And what has happened?

I tried reduce this but so much of it is important to Canadians' security that I can only suggest you read the whole thing. It is lengthy but it is the official record of what our MP's are reporting about our security and what has transpired in Canada.

Hansard April 12, 05: RCMP Officers - Meyerthorpe - Roszko, Underfunding, Undermanning, Security, Gun Registry, Lenient Courts, Concern for Criminals but not for Victims' Rights, Appointed Justices, Sentencing, Drugs, Pedophiles, Edmonton Forensic Laboratory, & More

Mr. Bill Casey (Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, CPC) In the exploration to find out what the problem was, we discovered that the RCMP in Nova Scotia has a shortage of officers. The problem is budget; it does not have the budget. It does not have enough money to hire enough RCMP officers to do the minimum level of law enforcement in Nova Scotia.

The minister will know this because I have brought this to her attention several times. She has acknowledged that, but we need a commitment from the minister, both on the Northeast Nova drug section and also for the whole province of Nova Scotia. The RCMP must be given the absolute minimum level of RCMP officers to provide at least the minimum level of law enforcement [. . . . ]

Mr. Rob Merrifield (Yellowhead, CPC): I would like to talk about this killer for a minute. This individual had 30 criminal charges over three decades and 8 convictions. Some of them involved firearms, break and entry, lawful confinement, death threats, possession of stolen property and assault. The individual should not have been on the streets. It is one of the most horrendous stories one will hear when talking to residents of the Mayerthorpe area. They will say how this man intimidated a community, police officers and families. He had no business being out of the court system.

The courts failed not only these officers and the community but the country, and we have to do something about it. This incident draws attention to not only the lax court system but also the lax way that we deal with drugs. It draws attention to a gun registry that absolutely does not work, never will work and did not protect the community in this case. It never would even if we could comply with it. It is a waste of $2 billion up to this point [. . . . ]

Mr. Rob Merrifield: Mr. Chair, I was talking to the mother of one of the fallen officers just two days ago. She explained to me that her son was not supposed to be on duty at the time of this killing, but was called in because of the lack of RCMP officers in the Mayerthorpe detachment.

That is not new to rural Alberta. That is not new to rural areas right across the country from coast to coast. That is exactly what is happening. Not only do we not have enough RCMP officers, but they do not have enough of the resources they need to do their job. That absolutely has to change.

[. . . . ] Mr. Peter MacKay (Central Nova, CPC

[. . . . ] There is a need to ensure that there are proper resources, that there is the necessary legislative support, that there are sufficient officers, sufficient support staff, sufficient technological resources. There is an increasing complexity in the job of an RCMP officer, of any peace officer in this day and age, in the time and effort it takes to draft warrants, to produce evidence, to go to court and prepare witnesses. It is a very taxing and extremely complex occupation. [. . . . ]

. . . ensuring that convictions, ensuring that individuals who are labelled as dangerous, those who have been sentenced and placed on probation, ensuring that all those conditions are enforced comes down to person power. The RCMP, our police first and foremost, are those first responders. Those individuals put themselves in harm's way holding people accountable, enforcing the law.

I suggest that there is no greater task and responsibility of the government than to ensure that those men and women are in place and are properly resourced.


Mr. Rob Merrifield: Mr. Chair, the member is absolutely right that the RCMP officers are not resourced properly. Why is that? We have a government that has neglected our criminal justice system and law enforcement in this country for a decade or more.

I will mention that the one group of individuals that the weak law enforcement in rural areas and particularly in my riding is not lost on is the criminals. We are seeing many grow ops and a massive drug problem with marijuana. We are seeing a tremendous problem with methamphetamine.

If members do not think that this country had better take note of what is actually happening with crystal methamphetamine, then they do not understand exactly what is happening, particularly in the rural areas. Out of sight, out of mind is the idea behind a lot of criminals. They understand they can get away with a tremendous amount when the law enforcement officers are stretched to the max and cannot do the job that needs to be done. We need to push back against this criminal element that is coming at us with a vengeance.


I have been a member of Parliament since 2000 and drug use has increased unbelievably. It is not because of a lack of political will in my riding. Communities have joined arms. Social services, RCMP, the educational system and the health care system have joined together. We need to hire more police. Actually we need to hire more communications people and get into the schools.

We are still losing the battle on the crystal methamphetamine problem. There is a serious problem not only with crystal meth, but when these people get into court, the courts turn them back into the community. That has to stop if we are to save this country from what will be a tremendously serious problem in the future.


Mr. Peter MacKay (Central Nova, CPC): [. . . . ]

The shortfall of resources first and foremost has to be noted. In a report that came from internal RCMP documents that were disclosed as a result of the Arar inquiry, a senior officer speaks of realignment, which is interesting language that was used by the minister herself. Realignment really means withdrawal from rural parts of the country and a concentration in perhaps bigger areas.


I want to quote from that report. The officer, speaking from the RCMP anti-terrorist financing group stated, “If the human resource issue is not addressed we run the risk of jeopardizing the safety of Canada and its citizens as well as potentially embarrassing the Government of Canada and the RCMP on the domestic and international levels”. The document goes on to talk about that shortfall and the ramifications.

The government has a lot to be held to account for in the decisions that it has taken. It really comes down to priorities. Although this is a very serious debate and some might try to label it as a partisan one, we in the opposition have a duty. We owe it to Canadians to point out the inadequacies and the decisions that the government has taken that are affecting the lives of Canadians and the life and limb of RCMP officers and others who are tasked with enforcing the law.
The priority decisions to take money out of budgets at a critical time, to move officers away from our border for example, which has been pointed out quite recently in reports, jeopardizing the safety of Canadians have to be addressed.

We know it is a priority policy decision taken by the government to withdraw officers, just as it is a policy decision to continue to fund the gun registry that does not adequately protect Canadians, does not give value added to the task of protecting Canadians. The decision to close forensic laboratories delays the disclosure of evidence and delays the production of evidence that is to be used in courtrooms, which oftentimes unnecessarily leads to acquittals.

There are also the issues around the early release of prisoners, as my colleague referred to. Some police in my area back in Pictou County, Nova Scotia call it the catch and release program. They wear little fish hooks with the barbs taken off. This is their feeling of frustration.

The RCMP and all those in the law enforcement community are looking for leadership from the government. They are looking for the necessary tools, resources and technology to do the job that is asked of them. It is life and death for them and for those communities that they protect.


They do so much good work outside their normal policing duties. They are the face of our community. I think of people like John Kennedy who has a wonderful innovative program, Adopt a Library, in Pictou County, Nova Scotia and hopes to make it national. It is meant to encourage literacy. Our police participate in so many levels of society.

The RCMP are such a source of pride for Canadians. It is a symbol of this country, a symbol of virtue, integrity and all that is good about Canada.

(2015)

[. . . . ]


Mr. Vic Toews: Mr. Chair, the issue of gun control is not in dispute here. Conservatives support gun control. What we do not support is the long gun registry. To suggest that a police officer would rely on that registry to determine whether there was any firepower inside a house would be gross negligence on the part of that officer and the supervisor.

Imagine supervisors saying that they have checked the registry, that there is not a gun registered there and that police officers can walk right in. That is absolute foolishness. Every front line police officer who I have spoken with says the registry does not work.

We have now spent almost $2 billion on a registry that does not work. This statistic comes from the CBC. The CBC is another funded government organization. I am relying on the CBC to give me that information that it says it is $2 billion. Let us assume that the $2 billion figure is correct.

I know those members do not want to hear that. I can say that officers would like proper equipment. They would like more officers in the field.
RCMP officers in my riding are working 70 and 80 hours a week. They work those hours because they do not have any replacements. Do members know that much of the time they put in is free overtime?

Let us put the money into paying our officers and getting more officers in the field, rather than this foolishness of the gun registry. That gun registry should have been gone a long time ago. Let us demonstrate that we care about our police officers by giving them backup, by giving them equipment and by paying them properly.

(2120)


Mr. Bob Mills (Red Deer, CPC): [. . . . ]


The courts are too lenient. Victims' rights are not paramount. We are always worried about what is going to happen to the poor criminals. We are always worried about whether their rights are going to be defended.

There are dangerous offenders in all our communities. There are the Roszkos with 30 some charges against them and our courts do not do anything about them. The courts keep letting them off. Slick lawyers convince weak judges that these people should be let out. We blame the police. We plea bargain. More and more of these liberal judges are appointed, and look what we get.


Pedophiles are being released. I had one in my community who committed 10 offences. I asked the then justice minister, who is now the Deputy Prime Minister, what I should tell the parents of the 11th victim. She told me we were always harping about this, that we always wanted to go after criminals. There was an 11th and 12th victim. They were five and six-year-old little girls. That is what this liberal justice system does for us.

We have to protect the rights of Karla Homolka, who killed her own sister. We sure would not want to do anything to upset her.


Murder suspects are being released. I was in Vancouver this weekend and heard about someone who was here as a landed immigrant and had committed 10 offences. The judge let him out. He had been charged with crimes back home and we certainly would not want to send him back home where he might face some different punishment than what he would receive here.


We are seeing a liberal justice system and Canadians are sick and tired of it. They want us to support our police. They want our courts to enforce the maximum of the law that is available.

James Roszko is a perfect example. His father called him the devil. His brother would not talk to him. His neighbours were afraid of him. The police were afraid of him. Yet, this person was out. Every one of our communities has one of these individuals. They are around because of our liberal justice system.


Why was this man not declared an habitual offender? Why was he not put away to protect innocent victims? When money is seized in drug operations, why is it given back for the defence of the criminal? Why is it not given to the RCMP in order to catch more of these kinds of criminals and to shut down grow ops? Instead, we give it back to the criminals to defend themselves. What kind of a justice system is that?

We wasted $2 billion on a gun registry when in fact we could have put that money into technology for police officers. Gang activity is going on in all parts of our communities. These gangs are infiltrating everywhere. It is time we put an end to that.

It is time we sent a message from this place. We need to let people know that we support our police officers. They are doing a great job considering they have no support from the government. We need to change that.


We need to tell criminals that victims have rights, that we care about the victims. We need to tell them that our system is going to do everything to protect victims, not create more of them. We need to tell gangs that our police have the best technology. Gangs have great technology. In many cases the RCMP will tell us that the technology that gangs have is better than its own.

We have a sex registry with no sex offenders in it. We give them the right to tell a judge this might hurt their job opportunities. We are not worried about the victims. We just seem to be worried about the criminals.

The government is sending the wrong message. It wants to decriminalize marijuana. All that will do is tell people that crystal meth or whatever is okay. It will tell people that drugs are okay.

There are four dead police officers, two of them were from my riding. I am here today to say that we should support the RCMP. Let us do everything we can in this place to send the right message, not the message that is being sent by the government.

(2230)


Mr. Bob Mills: Madam Chair, that was probably one of the worst weekends of my career here in Parliament when I attended those two funerals.

I think first of Anthony Gordon, visiting with his mother, visiting with his wife who is expecting another child in July, and seeing his two-year-old son who will never have a dad. That hits one pretty hard. It creates a lot of emotion.

When I hear this Liberal namby-pamby about what we are going to do with criminals, it just makes me furious.

I will never forget the Brock Myrol family who gave a eulogy to their son saying what a great person he was and what kind of a young man he was. I am a parent myself, but to hear parents do that I could not do what they didthat day. It was very touching.

Here was a young guy being buried in a superman T-shirt because that was what he was like. He always raised the bar. He lived by the Lone Ranger's Creed. It would be my pleasure to read this into the record tonight because this was the creed of this young man who died because of James Roszko with 30 charges and being let out every time and never paying the penalty that he should have by law.

The creed states:

I believe that to have a friend, a man must be one.

That all men are created equal and that everyone has within himself the power to make this a better world.

That God put the firewood there but that every man must gather and light it himself.

In being prepared physically, mentally, and morally to fight when necessary for that which is right.

That a man should make the most of what equipment he has.

That “This government, of the people, by the people and for the people” shall live always.

That men should live by the rule of what is best for the greatest number.

That sooner or later...somewhere...somehow...we must settle with the world and make payment for what we have taken.

That all things change but truth, and that truth alone, lives on forever.

In my Creator, my country, my fellow man.

I think that sums it up. Maybe we should give some real serious thought as to how we can improve this justice system. That is the message I got. I do not want those four young men to die in vain without the government getting that message that we must change the way this justice system works. We must make it mean something. We must crack down on these thugs who literally are running our country in many cases because judges are just not doing their job.

[. . . . ]

(2235)

Mr. Kevin Sorenson (Crowfoot, CPC): Madam Chair, is my colleague aware that the commissioner of the RCMP is like a deputy minister in the government? The gentleman blamed Commissioner Zaccardelli of the RCMP for not keeping those detachments open in Quebec.

We on this side of the House have been concerned and frustrated for a long time with what we call the politicization of the police force. In the APEC report, which came out 2201, Judge Hughes said that one of the things that had to be addressed in the federal government was the politicization of the police force, the fact that the commissioner of the RCMP sat as a deputy minister of his government.

[. . . . ] Mr. Kevin Sorenson (Crowfoot, CPC): Madam Chair, I rise tonight to take part in this debate in memory and out of respect for four fallen constables: Constable Anthony Gordon, Constable Leo Johnston, Constable Brock Myrol and Constable Peter Schiemann.

[. . . . ] In the wake of these murders, it is so hard to refrain from pointing fingers in fear that we would be accused of exploiting this tragedy.

After learning of the tragedy in Mayerthorpe, the media contacted me and we issued a press release condemning initially illegal marijuana use and the grow op industry. The commissioner had done it and the minister had done it. In hindsight, we were perhaps a little too quick and a little too harsh. However drug use, the drug trade and the carnage it causes are a harsh reality in this country that must be changed and cannot be denied.

What I did not mention out of respect was the firearm registry and the very simple fact that it did absolutely nothing to deter James Roszko, a man with a violent history, from acquiring and using his firearm. Roszko, as many other criminals, illegally bought and brought firearms across the border. Since the death of the four constables there have been numerous articles and editorials written about the Firearms Act not being a deterrent and therefore I am not going to belabour that point tonight.

There was also a mention of our lax sentencing laws and the failure of our justice system to convict and hold dangerous offenders such as Roszko. Over his 46 years, Roszko faced multiple charges and, although most were violent crimes, he was rarely convicted. For threatening to kill and sexually abusing a teenage boy over a 10 year period Roszko was given two years in prison.


I would strongly suggest that this type of lenient sentencing is courtesy of the Liberals who, over the last 10 years, have made reintegration the guiding principle of our corrections and parole system as opposed to the protection of society as being the guiding principle.

[. . . . ]

Last week, police officers all across the country came to Parliament Hill for their annual lobby day to bring forward their wish list or their list of concerns. Topping their list was a national drug strategy that would incorporate the balanced approach that we have learned about here with supply and demand of illicit drugs. They wanted more for prevention, more for education, more enforcement, treatment, rehabilitation and research. They recognize drugs as a major problem in our country.

Canadian police are calling on the Liberal government to improve our corrections and parole system and to restore confidence. In the name of officers killed in the line of duty, such as another officer, Sudbury Constable Joe MacDonald, the police are asking that first degree murderers spend a minimum of 25 years in prison, not in a club fed, not in a resort style prison, and with no eligibility of parole; a just improvement that the Conservative Party wholeheartedly supports.

They are asking that section 745, the faint hope clause, be repealed so that 80% of applicant killers who are granted early release serve their full life sentences; another measure that we on this side of the House endorse.

Before closing, I would like to touch on a concern that was brought to my attention by Chief Chalmers of the Camrose City Police and by Detective Lorne Blumhagen who was here in Ottawa last week, and that is the closure of the Edmonton forensic lab.

(2330)

Forty per cent of Canada's forensic work is currently done in the Edmonton lab, and 100% of Canada's break and enter analysis is done in Edmonton. Yet it is being closed, much to the frustration of police in Alberta and all across the west.

A year and a half ago I stood in the House and repeatedly questioned the former solicitor general about the wisdom in closing the RCMP DNA forensic labs in Edmonton, Regina and Halifax. On each occasion I pointed out that the RCMP forensic scientists were frustrated, police were being hampered in their investigations, and court proceedings were being stalled because DNA testing for urgent cases was taking three times longer than the RCMP's mandated timeline. Unfortunately, the former solicitor general refused to listen.

[. . . . ] Last month we learned that the RCMP will one day have a massive five year backlog of requests for Criminal Code record checks if these obsolete processing systems are not replaced soon. The police are coming forward.

The Canadian Police Association and other associations have recognized the major concerns. Given this huge tragedy, if the government would move on at least some of the concerns, we would stand and applaud the government. The Liberals' snooze button has not been hit. They are still sleeping at the switch.